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Posts tagged ‘edge of the empire’



An evolving review, deconstruction, and reconstruction of the game
Part 4


In my past 3 posts on the subject of Fantasy Flight GamesStar Wars: Edge of the Empire role-playing game, I discussed the rules’ unique and dynamic dice mechanic. I haven’t mentioned FFG’s other products in that line, Star Wars: Age of Rebellion and Star wars: Force and Destiny, or the Beginner Game boxed versions of each of those three titles because I have no experience with them. However, all their Star Wars rpg products use the same system, so my thoughts about EotE would apply to the entire line.

This post will focus on ways I would simplify the rules by focusing on the most compelling aspect of the game’s dice mechanic, regardless of whether one is using the game’s dice mechanic as-is or some alternative

As-is, the system uses three kinds of dice with positive results on them, and three kinds with negative results on them. The most commonly-rolled dice have the most common results on them (Success and Failure), the less-often rolled dice have a mix of those most-common and some less-common results (Advantage and Threat), and the rarest dice have more of the least common results (Triumph and Despair).

I think the three-tiered scale of outcome severity is a sweet-spot for a game trying to emulate the pulp drama sensibilities of the Star Wars movies and animated series.

My basic proposal is to use that scale for everything. I’ve discussed my frustrations with the system’s existing dice pool system, and how it seems like a barrier to new, casual, and less mechanically-minded players, but here I’m going to focus on this three-tiered idea.

As far as I can see, the possible results of an attack on a character in the Star Wars movies and tv series are as follows:

  1. Miss; no damage.
  2. Grazed; superficial damage; no real damage,  but a point has been made: things just got real!
  3. Stunned, dazed, or otherwise temporarily debilitated but still basically functional.
  4. Unconscious or otherwise taken out of action.
  5. Dead. Possibly cut in half.

Setting aside “miss” and “dead”, we have three common possible negative results.

Looking at SW:EOTE’s three tiers, though, there’s actually six possible outcomes (three pairs), so what if we add three possible positive outcomes of being attacked?

  1. Alerted: this offers the attacked character a free use of an appropriate skill to assess the situation.
  2. Some kind of advantage.
  3. Turning the tables.

I admit that those last two examples are pretty vague. I don’t know how exactly to implement that, and the system as-is already includes possible negative outcomes for the attacker other than just failure. I think what I’m imagining is a system where each roll represents an exchange of attacks and defenses, rather than each roll representing each attack or action. I think that’s pulpier and more Star Wars-y, but I’ll have to think on that some more.

Let’s look at ranged attacks. In something as pulpy as Star Wars, the range of a target is one of the following:

  1. Zero: punching, kicking, lifting people up off the floor by their throats.
  2. Nearby: hurling grappling hook swinglines, throwing someone a weapon.
  3. Shooting: blasters, bowcasters. (Hey, that could be a game: Blasters & Bowcasters!)
  4. Long-range shooting: specialized and/or large ranged weapons, like sniper rifles and mounted weapons.
  5. Out of range.

So, again, dropping “zero” and “out of range”, we have three levels.

You would need a separate scale for space ship combat, when it comes to range as well as damage.

Where I’d really like to infuse the system with this concept is to rate all weapons, armor, and equipment in either the number of extra dice that the item grants you, or in a number of one or more of the six possible dice results you would add to a roll involving that item. For instance, a blaster pistol might give you an extra one of the lowest level of positive dice,  a blaster rifle gives you an extra two of those, and a mounted blaster gives you those two as well but also a mid-level positive die. Or you could have a blaster give you one extra Success, a blaster rifle gives you two extra Successes, and a mounted blaster gives you two Successes and an Advantage. Again, I’m just spit-balling here.

Armor would be rated in the number of Successes it negates, or the number of negative dice it adds to the attacker’s roll.

By putting everything on the same scale and relating everything to those six possible outcomes, you eliminate the bigger numbers the system has for various damage thresholds and other stats for weapons, armor, and other equipment.

Come to think of it, let’s take a step back, actually, and look at the Characteristics that are one of the primary ways SW:EOTE characters are defined: Brawn, Agility, Intellect, Cunning, Willpower, and Presence. Conveniently, that’s six, but I’m tempted to cut it to three. You would lose some of the distinctions between characters, but it might be best to express that through SW:EOTE’s Skills and Talents anyway. So, for now I’ll go with Body, Mind, and Spirit.

To express further distinctions through Skills, I wouldn’t attach each Skill to a specific Characteristic the way the game does as is, but allow a system where a Skill can be connected to whatever Characteristic seems appropriate for the situation. So, for instance, you could connect a “Guns” skill to Body for shooting, but to Mind for attempts at repair or assessing the market value of a weapon.

That’s about all I have on that for now.

Next: probably my last post on SW:EotE for the time being. I’ll be discussing Obligation, Motivation, and designing games based on well-known, highly popular, mass media properties.



An evolving review, deconstruction, and reconstruction of the game
Part 3


I’m going to start getting more into my critique and evolving, probably incomplete hack of Fantasy Flight GamesStar Wars: Edge of the Empire roleplaying game. I’ll be talking about the game’s dice mechanic, but for a detailed explanation of how that works in the game as published, see my previous blog post.

Basically, SW:EOTE uses a dice pool system for task resolution. There are six kinds of dice – seven if Force Dice come into play.  Those six kinds of dice each have a different color, so it’s easy to grab the ones you need, but the exact number of each kind of die will change with every new situation.

Those six kinds of dice come in two types: positive dice and negative dice.

There are six different possible results on them: Success,  Advantage, and Triumph are the positive results, and Failure, Threat,  and Despair are the negative results.

Each of those six possible results are more common on some of the six kinds of dice than on others.

Some negative results cancel out positive results.

Some die faces have more than one result on them.

One or more faces on each die are blank, with no result.

Every time I describe this dice system, no matter how I slice it I’m struck by how awkward it is. There are aspects of it that would become second nature with practice, but that seems like an unnecessary barrier to new and/or casual gamers. Being such a high-profile, cross-media, all-ages popular culture powerhouse, a priority in designing a Star Wars roleplaying game should be accessibility.

But what I also see are seeds of a simpler, more streamlined system that integrates the excellent three-tiered positive and negative results idea throughout the system. More on that later.

Now, I am not qualified to analyze the probabilities of rolling any given result on N number of dice of X types, so I’m hesitant to suggest an alternate dice system. Any alterations are going to change the odds of one thing or another, but what follows are three options I’ve come across that could be improvements.

Trentin C. Bergeron (user name: TreChriron) offers an option on the forums that uses common six-sided dice only, in just three different colors. That simplifies the dice themselves right off the bat. A base “chance roll” of 3d6 is rolled simultaneously with positive and negative dice, the net result of the latter two adjusting the former.

Basically, you come up with two totals and adjust one with the other. The net result is compared to a target number of 13 to determine how well you succeed or fail. Rolling doubles gets you your Advantages and Threats, and rolling triples gets you Triumph and Despair results. I’m a big fan of rewarding multiples on a roll.

Overall, it seems a little awkward still and rough around the edges, but worth pursuing.

Over at Yaruki Zero Games, Ewen Cluney has created Destiny Dice, his own open license dice mechanic modeled after SW:EOTE’s dice pool system. Destiny Dice is designed for use in Evil Hat’s Fate games, but could easily be used for FFG’s Star Wars rpgs as well. He’s come up with much more obvious, intuitive symbols for the six possible results, and uses customized 6-sided dice only. He hasn’t eliminated much of the awkwardness of reading the results, though.

He also replaces the Triumph/Despair poles with Hope/Despair which both makes more sense and is a nice reference to what started it all, A New Hope. One could also go with Triumph/Defeat, which also makes more sense. This might all be the pedantic grammarian in me coming out, though.

Bill Edmunds’ Meta Dice are also a promising replacement for SW:EOTE’s dice, and have exciting applications for many other games as well. Definitely worth a look.

If I were to choose or design an alternative dice mechanic to replace FFG’s – which, as I mentioned above, I do not feel qualified to do – I would want fewer kinds of dice, only one result per die face, more intuitive icons, and maybe no blank faces. I would base the negative dice on the stats (Characteristic scores, Skill ranks, etc.) of the opposition.

However, I’m getting into the topic for my next post: changing how characters are built, and integrating character and other stats into the existing dice mechanic.



An evolving review, deconstruction, and reconstruction of the game
Part 2


For my previous and first post on Fantasy Flight GamesStar Wars: Edge of the Empire, go here. SW:EOTE uses unique, proprietary, colored dice for its task resolution system. There are “positive dice” and “negative dice”, meaning dice that you roll to reflect strengths and advantages your character has, and dice you roll to represent weaknesses and challenging conditions.

Basically, if your character has a Skill, that Skill has an associated Characteristic. The Characteristics are the bare bones of a character in EotE, and Skills are, well, skills. Together, they determine the number of green Ability Dice and yellow Proficiency Dice you roll to accomplish things.

If you have a significant advantage in the situation at hand, you might also add light blue Boost Dice.

Together, those are the 3 kinds of positive dice.
You will probably also have to roll some negative dice:
Neg dice.jpg

There’s purple Difficulty Dice for basic problems or resistance, black Setback Dice for unusual complications, and red Challenge Dice for big-time threatening situations.

This assemblage of dice constitutes your dice pool for the situation at hand. You roll them and then start figuring out the results.

I say ”figuring” because there’s some complexity to reading these dice.

If you’re feeling lost, just ignore everything I’ve said so far, because it’s kind of irrelevant – which I admit is a weird thing to say, but I think it’s true. I will get into that more here, but mostly in upcoming posts on this topic.

So, there are three levels of possible positive results:
    Success     Advantage   Triumph

There are also three levels of possible negative results:
     Failure       Threat        Despair


Success and Failure results are the most common, Advantage and Threat results are less so, and Triumph and Despair even less so.

The basic guideline for reading the dice is that negative results cancel out positive results of the same level. So, each Failure result cancels a Success result, and each Threat result cancels an Advantage result.

The number of Successes or Failures indicate how well or poorly you meet your goals for that roll.

Advantages and Threats indicate short term side-effects or little twists to the challenge at hand, separate from whether you succeeded or not.

Triumph and Despair results can turn the tide of a battle and dramatically change the nature of a situation.

That’s about it for how the dice work…except…

Some die faces have one symbol, some have no symbols, some have two of the same symbols, and some have two different symbols.

If you’re a visual, tactile person like me, this means that when you see dice that cancel each other out you take them and put them away from the dice with meaningful results.

Then (again, if you’re like me, you poor thing), if you have a die showing a Success and an Advantage on a single face AND a die showing a Threat, you want to rotate the die showing a Success and an Advantage until it shows just a Success symbol, since the Threat negates the Advantage but not the Success.

Then you can read the dice.

Make sense? Don’t feel bad if you’re confused – let’s take a look at a sample roll.

Let’s pretend you rolled this. What does it all mean? Well, it’s complicated.

One of those two Threats on that purple die cancels out the Advantage on that light blue die, so rotate the purple one until it shows only 1 Threat, and the light blue one is outta there!

Also, The Failure on that black die cancels out one of the Successes on that yellow die, so rotate the yellow so it shows one Success and get rid of that black die.

Hmm, that remaining Threat on the purple die could cancel the Advantage on that top-most green die that has two symbols on it, so rotate that green die until it shows just an Advantage and dump that purple die for good.

Now – one of the Threats on that red die could cancel out the Advantage on that bottom green die, so…

Here’s your final result! 2 Successes and a Threat!

Does that seem like a lot of work? It does to me.

Naturally, some of all that becomes second nature after a while. Some people are able to just quickly “mental math” all that right off the bat or with some practice. I’ve been running the game for months, though, and this process still feels clunky. I can’t be the only one, can I?

Don’t get me wrong: the dramatic dynamic of Success, Advantage, Triumph and Failure, Threat, and Despair is VERY pulpy and Star Warsy! I love it – I really do. However, I think the implementation is overwrought.

So, next time I’ll start getting into some alternatives and how I want to re-write this game, both in terms of dice mechanics and how characters are built.




An evolving review, deconstruction, and reconstruction of the game
Part 1



I started running SW:EOTE several months ago. My 13 year-old son played Pathfinder on and off with his friends for years, but started complaining that the games were getting too same-old same-old. I got him some Pathfinder card decks, designed to jazz-up combat, encounters, and adventures in general. They got used some, and they’ll be handy for other games and if he returns to Pathfinder in the future, but he was still ready for something new.


So, I thought about games that would be similar enough to Pathfinder to be accessible to him and his friends, but different enough to seem fresh and to broaden his roleplaying game horizons. My friend and sometimes gaming guru Chris Rogers- of The Die is Podcast – mentioned Fantasy Flight GamesStar Wars: Edge of the Empire, and was even kind enough to send me his copy from the other side of the planet. Like Pathfinder, characters in SW:EotE are built much like various iterations of Dungeons & Dragons, but the system has a unique and dynamic dice mechanic – and it’s Star Wars! That all sounded like just the thing.


So I started running the game for my usual group, and included my son. I immediately realized I would be hand-waving a lot of things, because in play the rules seemed oddly not very Star Wars-y to me.


Thanksgiving rolled around, and my son wanted me to run a scenario for him and his cousins that weekend. I decided to see what I could do to simplify character creation, so I whipped up a quick character creation one-sheet. I wound up not running it for them that weekend, but this quick re-write got me thinking more analytically about what I like and don’t like about the game.


Below you’ll find said one-sheet. I changed some terms to make things maybe a bit more accessible, I dumped 2 of the 6 ability scores, rejiggered Skills, and smooshed together some of the defensive stuff. The Species stuff is incomplete. The Skills are not very well balanced here. Page numbers refer to the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire Core Rulebook




1-5: citizen
5-8: insider
9-10: outsider


TURNING POINT (p. 37-38)
1-2: opportunity knocked
3-4: higher calling
5-6: made an enemy
7-8: feet of clay
9-10: wrong place, wrong time


OBLIGATION (p.38-43)
1: betrayed
2: traitor
3: blackmailed
4: bounty
5: wanted (criminal record)
6: debt
7: duty (oath, responsibility)
8: family
9: favor
10: obsessed


MOTIVATION (p. 94-97)
roll d10 for all charts


SPECIES (p. 43-53)

Bothan Droid Gand Human Rodian Trandoshan Twilek Wookie
Brawn 1 1 2 2 1 3 1 3
Agility 2 1 2 2 3 1 2 2
Cunning 3 1 2 2 2 2 2 2
Will 2 1 3 2 2 2 3 2
Wound Threshold +2 +4
Strain Threshold +1 -1 +1 -2
Starting XP 100 175 100 100 100 90 100 90


CAREER (p. 53-91)
Use as-is for now, but need new skill bonus lists.
Not using Specializations for now.


SKILLS (p. 103-124)
(abbreviations are for Brawn, Agility, Cunning, and Will)

brawl – B or A
move – A
perform – A
shoot (choose: light, heavy, mounted) – A
sneak – A
stunts – B or A

fix – C (choose: electronic, mechanical, weapons, propulsion)?
fly –  A (choose: ground, small space, medium space, large space)?
focus – W
hack – C
heal – C
know – C (choose: core worlds, outer rim, education, lore, underworld, xenology)
sense – C
survive – W (choose: street, desert, arctic, forest, water, space)

charm – W
deal – W
fool/trick – W
lead – W
scare – W


(TALENTS (p. 128-145) – IGNORE  FOR  NOW, but figure out a smoother continuum/integration from stats to skills to talents)


Damage (divide by 5)
HP (was Structure Threshold)
(Ignore everything else.)


Defense + Soak = Threshold bonus
Hard Points
(Ignore everything else)

To do:
Look at stats, thresholds, and skills – integrate them more. Replace some terms with something Star Warsier: “threshold” might have to go, for instance.



Next time, I will explore more of my conceptual and design thoughts regarding SW:EOTE.

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ceci says

did I just say that? (adventures in stream-of-consciousness writing)

Ellen Starr Lyon

commited to creating art while being a full-time working mom

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